Andrew Barr (00:01.638)
Alright, we should be good now. Alright. Today I'm sitting down with someone whose fingerprints are on some of the biggest records in Modern Rock. You've heard his work, even if you don't know you've heard his work. Nickelback, Avril Lavigne, Daughtry, Rob Zombie, Shinedown, and with multiple Junior Award nominations, the list of accomplishments he has is insane. What I love about Chris is that he has this analog mindset with some digital execution. He's come up in the days of big rooms, big consoles, and real budgets, but he's one of the rare guys who adapted perfectly into the
So today we're gonna talk about what it actually takes to get pro results in the modern day. And whether you're working in a multi-million dollar studio or you're producing in your bedroom, Chris Baysford, thanks for being here, man.
Chris Baseford (00:42.978)
Well, thank you very much. would say perfectly analog into digital perfectly might not necessarily be the right description, but I made it work. It was a journey. It was a journey to say the least. But yeah, it would be hard for me to go back now.
Andrew Barr (00:51.647)
Hahaha!
Andrew Barr (00:59.556)
Yeah, what is your current workflow look like that when you say like, you know, we're talking like digital to analog. We've talked about this in the past, but I'm talking hybrid mostly. Which direction do you mostly lean and how does that your current workflow look?
Chris Baseford (01:12.15)
Well, currently it's it I would say it's hybrid in the sense of I do have you know, I do go out of the computer for a few things. I do have a 16 channel summing amp. I've got some hardware on my mix bus. All of that still, you know, being a part of my setup, I've done many, many mixes without any of it. And we're talking kind of like
incremental improvements and sometimes it's not just like one sounding better than the other sometimes it's just having a piece of hardware that is
makes you think twice about going and turning a bunch of knobs, because if you don't like it, you got to turn it back. And so sometimes even just having things on a piece of hardware makes, puts some limitations in my brain, which then makes me focus on the stuff that I really need to be focusing on. You know, sometimes I think we go to plugins, hoping that scrolling through presets or changing a bunch of parameters is going to instantly like do all the heavy lifting and most of the time it doesn't. So sometimes hardware for me is more of a
of a workflow limitation thing than it is, I think it sounds way better than plugins. Sometimes when you do the A-B, sometimes it's very noticeable and sometimes it's not noticeable at all. But for me, it's very much a workflow thing rather than a sonics thing.
Andrew Barr (02:41.786)
makes total sense, especially in the last, I'd say, 10 years, even the last eight or five years, the amount of sonic quality that you get from the digital side of things has really ramped up with the analog emulations. It's been extremely impressive.
Chris Baseford (02:57.1)
Yeah, I mean, like I said, that's typically where I'm not finding that's lacking anymore. In the beginning it was. And also just learning how to work in the digital realm. You mentioned kind of the transition from going analog into digital. There's a lot of stuff in analog that we now, I'd say, romanticize.
as being so great and the harmonics and the saturation and the transient this and the... We didn't really have a choice. You couldn't turn that on and off, right? And so when you were running Signal through a tape machine or you were running Signal through a console or a bunch of hardware, a lot of things were happening whether you wanted them to or not. So we were like...
almost a little less aware of what was going on. You just kind of knew that you'd like certain things. Then when you went to digital, those things weren't happening automatically. And so you couldn't treat the digital sources the same way and expect everything just to kind of happen automatically. You had to be more intentional about, okay, I'm going into the computer and I'm not hitting a tape machine and the converter is actually
let's say better, more accurately capturing and playing back the signal than a tape machine was. But I'm used to then treating that signal with these processors and it's not working anymore. Well, why isn't that working? Well, it's got too much transient now and it's got, you know, of an abundance of low end that used to get rolled off on the tape machine and all of these things that would happen and even just running it through a console sometimes would, same thing, it would do certain things that would almost kind of
precondition the signal to where you might not have had to do much after that. Well, now when you go into digital, you got to start thinking about, well, what is it not getting before you start actually doing your mix? And once I learned how to start building some of that stuff into the workflow and not getting bogged down with it is when things kind of started clicking finally. So, yeah.
Andrew Barr (05:13.134)
I loved it, I love that. Let's take it back a little bit and I'm curious to know, how did you first get into engineering? Take us back to young Chris of when you first started getting into this, what did that look like?
Chris Baseford (05:21.358)
Yeah, I mean I was a mediocre guitar player at best. I mean I loved music ever since I was a little kid. My earliest memories were playing toy guitars to my dad's records and stuff like that, like when I was young young. And so when I got a little older, wanted to play guitar, loved listening to music, loved playing guitar. Didn't really know what engineering was as a
let's say, you know, kind of early teenager when I was started like playing in bands. But very quickly figured out that like my favorite part of being in a band was trying to get it to sound good. So, you know, I always loved, you know, when we do band practice, it was kind of like tweaking the amps and
moving the drum kit to a different part of the room. Why does it sound better when we set you up over there and we put the amp over here? And then obviously when you don't have any money trying to figure out how to cobble together a PA system, which was never a PA system. It was a bunch of old guitar amps that you would have like Y splitters. I don't even know how that worked. So I loved the...
technical, how do we get this to sound good as opposed to, let's write some new songs or I mean, I did that too, obviously, but my favorite part was like the sonic part. And then when we got, you know, you get a little bit more advanced and you want to go make a, you know, back in the day when you would actually have to go somewhere to make a demo tape, going to these small crappy local studios and, know, paying 20 bucks an hour and trying to get in and out as fast as you could.
so you didn't go broke. Just that process, I loved that process, which then led to we would rent our own equipment instead of going to a studio, we would rent an eight track cassette. I know I'm dating myself now. Like a Tascam eight track cassette, you know, set up in four microphones and we would do it ourselves. That was always my favorite part. Playing shows was kind of like, I mean, it was exciting, but that's not the part I loved.
Chris Baseford (07:37.876)
And so I kind of understood very quickly what I loved about that process. But it was a couple of years later when I actually figured out like, there's actually a guy who has a career doing this. Because up until then, it was, you know, like I said, it was like these small kind of crappy local studios where, you know,
a guitar player that he's got his own band, his dad has an office and they've got an empty room at the back of the warehouse and he was set up in that. So I wasn't seeing examples of like just successful careers recording music until actually it was a documentary movie that I was like, okay, this is how they make big records.
Andrew Barr (08:18.125)
Hahaha.
Chris Baseford (08:31.585)
These are people making the records that I love. It was the making of the Black Album, the documentary movie of that. That was kind of like, I'm like, maybe I can do this for a living. Those guys are making my favorite records for a living. And these guys in this band are actually listening to them when they say, hey, you should do this. And I'm like, so that guy must be somewhat successful or Metallica would be listening.
when he tells him to sing it like this or to play it like this or so that kind of like connected all of the all of the dots for me and I'm like okay maybe I should chase that because I just love doing it so much.
Andrew Barr (09:12.258)
What was your first big break in the space? Once you realize that, you're like, wow, I think I can do this professionally. What was your first big break and how did that kind of shape your career now?
Chris Baseford (09:22.017)
you know, I don't know if there was one necessarily big break. I think it's it's kind of a series of let's say kind of like medium sized breaks. You know, the first one I will say is my first real studio job was working at Sony Music in Toronto. They used to have an incredible facility just kind of north of the city.
I'm sure the building's still there, but Sony hasn't been there for a while, but it was everything in-house, studios, office, staff, manufacturing, video production, soundstage, everything was in one building. through a family connection, I knew somebody who worked at Sony on the office side of things, the business side of things.
They made an introduction to me to the head engineer at Sony, a guy named Lenny DeRose. And Lenny's an incredible engineer and done some just amazing records. And the studio at Sony was, it was small, but it like, was pro. They had a big, you know, Neve VR board and lots of outboard gear and awesome microphones. Like it was legit. And they were doing real records there. So it wasn't like a small project studio. But that being said, Lenny,
I think had had enough of kind of recording studio graduates as assistants and them only lasting a few weeks and then having to start over. Like he had kind of just said, I'm like, I'm just going to do this on my own. And so I did get to go and meet him, but it was just kind of like come hang out for the day and be a fly on the wall. wasn't, you know, you're getting a job kind of thing. That's not what it was.
And so I hung out for the day and I of, I've told this story a little bit before. While I was there, just, you know, I stayed out of the way. I didn't talk too much. I watched him work. I didn't ask too many questions. I probably didn't ask any questions. But I paid attention and I found little things that I could do to make myself useful, whether it be, you know, filling up his cup of coffee, you know, when he left the room to, you know,
Chris Baseford (11:39.127)
go take a smoke break or empty the, you know, all the gum wrappers off the credenza, go put them in the garbage. you know, the papers from the recall were scattered all over the place. I would kind of neatly put them together and put a paper clip on them and label them. And just kind of taking a little bit of initiative and doing very small things to make myself useful got me invited back the next day and then the next day and then the next day. And then six months later, it's kind of like, okay, I...
I guess I'm the assistant engineer here. And so that was, know, again, the introduction to Lenny was, like I said, by no means was it a big break because it wasn't like, here Lenny, this guy is really important and he has to be your assistant. It was a, you can come watch me work for a day. And then I turned that into something. And then the next kind of, again, this...
might be considered a big break, but Lenny worked, did a lot of work with a producer in LA named Scott Humphrey. And Scott's another, you know, very legendary Canadian producer and engineer writer, done a bunch of different stuff, worked with a bunch of huge artists and other producers. And probably about a year, maybe two years after, year and a half, two years after I'd been working with Lenny,
Lenny kind of volunteered me to go be Scott's engineer in LA. And so Scott was looking for a new engineer and called all his friends in the music business and that, you know, that he trusted. And Lenny volunteered me for that position. And so one day I came into Sony and he's like, you got to go down to LA on Friday. And I think it was like a Tuesday. And within three days, I was down in LA working with Scott on a big rock record.
And again, that was just kind of one project and then that worked out and then that turned into two projects and then it was kind of like, okay, this is working. And then I think worked with Scott for five or six years. So, so those are kind of like the two that I'd say the two breaks that I think kind of were very impactful leading to kind of where we are now.
Andrew Barr (13:45.253)
well.
Andrew Barr (13:57.275)
I love that. You mentioned having medium breaks, not necessarily like ever one big break. This kinda leads me into my next question, is luck versus work. Do you believe that luck plays a role? And if so, how much? And then how much does this just work? Because I've seen bands and artists actually get lucky, and then they don't capitalize on that luck, and they fall off. And I've also seen bands and artists that almost seem like they have bad luck.
Chris Baseford (14:01.805)
Yeah.
Chris Baseford (14:07.756)
Mm.
Andrew Barr (14:25.915)
but they just put their head down and run through a wall. So I'm curious to know, what does that look like and what do you kind of see? Does luck play a factor or not?
Chris Baseford (14:33.408)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, think it's all over. It's all over the map and it, you you could you can cross the spectrum from a day to day, you know, time frame, let alone a career. mean, I think, you know, let I mean, if we're going to use my example, yeah, it was very lucky that that I knew through my mother, I had a contact.
within the Sony company that could introduce me to Lenny and get and just get me a meeting with him and to say, hey, I'm just got out of school and I'd love to just kind of come and watch you work if I could. Like that was luck. I had nothing to do with that, right? That was just happenstance. My mom knew somebody who knew somebody and then great. I could have gone in that day and spent the day watching him work and that could have been it.
And so the fact that I took some initiative and I, not that emptying ashtrays and filling coffee cup is hard work, but paying attention and kind of taking some initiative is what led to the next thing. And so I think it's both. And yeah, I think there are those people who just, it's like, man, you could literally like.
just stay in bed all day and all the opportunities would drop in your lap. There are those people and there are those people who don't stop working and nothing goes their way every time. it just, and I don't know what that is, but I will say for me specifically, you gotta get lucky. But I the more
the more effort and the more passion and the more ambition and enthusiasm you put into something, I think.
Chris Baseford (16:38.216)
generates more opportunity or maybe the luck seems to happen, you you get luckier. Same thing, like, you know, when Scott Humphrey, you know, called his kind of trusted people in the business and there might have been a handful of them, Lenny could have very easily just been like, no, sorry, I don't know anybody because he didn't want to lose his assistant, right? And instead, I got lucky because
one of my, like probably my biggest mentor at the time was very selfless and offered me up, you know? And so again, it's like, was that lucky? Yeah, I mean, absolutely was lucky. But I think I'd also like to think that, you know, I established a rapport and a relationship in such a way that was more than just emptying coffee cups and ashtrays to where
Andrew Barr (17:16.023)
Hahaha
Chris Baseford (17:38.06)
Lenny wanted me to succeed. And so, you know, he did offer that opportunity to me. So it's both. It's both. I know that was a that was a word salad, but like it is both. And I have found consistently through my career, think, I think the harder you work. And like I said, the more enthusiastic you are, and the more passionate you are, I feel like the opportunities, let's say the luck seems to happen.
more frequently or in larger doses.
Andrew Barr (18:12.77)
There's an old Abraham Lincoln quote where he says, will prepare myself and perhaps my time will come. And I love thinking about it that way because once again, I believe that you can create your own luck. If you were to give, let's say somebody that's listening right now has an opportunity like you had, where they're able to kind get in a studio, get a mentor, what would you tell that person before they go in on their first day to be like, this is how to create as much luck as you possibly can?
Chris Baseford (18:20.468)
Love that.
Andrew Barr (18:42.586)
how to get as much favor as you possibly can in this situation. What would you tell that kid?
Chris Baseford (18:46.591)
Wow, that's a great question.
Chris Baseford (18:54.197)
That is a great question. Because I think it's hard not to look back. I think it's human nature to look back and not necessarily have regrets, but to look back and be like, if I would have known this, I would have done that differently. And then all of sudden you start splitting off onto all these paths. you might not have ended up where you're at. And most of the time, if you're having that conversation, you're probably in a place that...
ended up okay, but, Hmm.
Chris Baseford (19:31.391)
What would I tell that kid? mean, it's
Chris Baseford (19:37.077)
For me, is, know, the career is a part of life, but life is, you I've always had a little bit longer term vision. I've always felt that, you know, relationships and rapport and reputation, which can last a lifetime, is very important. And I've kind of...
I pride myself on a lot of that. I've definitely lost some opportunities because I was maybe looking a little too big picture and a little too long term. And there might have been something that if I jumped on sooner and maybe put myself in maybe taking a little bit more risk of like, might jeopardize a relationship here if this doesn't go the right way, but there's a big opportunity. I definitely erred on the side of, you know, loyalty and not stepping on toes and...
being a part of the team and looking at things longer term. I can't say it didn't work out for me. It worked out very well for me. And I have a lot of repeat clients. I have a lot of clients who I consider very good friends. And I think for me that worked well, for other people maybe not, but patience. Maybe that's the way that I can sum it up the most.
is I think you gotta have patience. And I think sometimes people maybe while being patient get a little complacent. patience without the complacency, which is tough. It's tough to stay motivated while kind of like the Abraham Lincoln thing. I'll prepare and I'll wait for my time to come. It's tough to stay prepared.
you know, when sometimes things aren't happening. yeah, big picture, long term, be patient. I think all of those things would probably, would have at least for me, if somebody had given me that advice, it would have just kind of confirmed, I think, what I already was hoping was gonna be the path. So.
Andrew Barr (21:54.343)
Yeah, makes total sense. preparing yourself and being ready for that, but also waiting and not being complacent is, that's a big thing. I've also known that just, not a lot of people take action. When I found my mentor, I just shut up. I walked in the studio and just shut up. And I just wanted to learn as much as I possibly could. I was also scared to death that I was gonna ruin the opportunity and I wanted to get called back. So I was like, I'm just gonna shut up and walk into the studio and just be as helpful as I possibly can.
Chris Baseford (22:12.501)
Me too.
Andrew Barr (22:22.214)
And so like complete ego death was extremely important in those kind of situations. But once again too, I also noticed, and this is something that I learned from my mentor as well, he had other people that were interested, but no one would ever make it work and no one would ever show up. And if they did show up, they were late. And so they got the same opportunity that I had, and yet they didn't take it nearly as seriously and they didn't prepare nearly as much. And that can be something that can be absolutely devastating, especially when you're looking, you know,
Chris Baseford (22:43.711)
Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew Barr (22:49.286)
20 years later, you're like, I had this and I just kind of blew it. And so I think that balance is awesome. I'm curious to know, what separates the pros, for example, from the last 20 years and the pros that burn out after one hit? We see names that come in and out, and then we see names that stay consistent. What do you think separates those bands, those artists, and even those mixing engineers, producers, and anybody in the music industry in that space? What do you think that is?
Chris Baseford (23:17.067)
I've actually had some very deep conversations about this and I've, know, philosophically, it kind of touches upon what we just, what we were just talking about a moment ago. When I started in the business, I only wanted to get hired based off my skill set and my competency. you know, I wanted somebody to call
and I pick up the phone and they say, hey, is this Chris? Yep. Man, I heard this record. We've never met before. You don't know who I am. I don't know who you are, but this, man, the snare sound on that record is incredible. You have to do my next record. That has not been my career. I know people who have those careers. That has not been my career. And it took me a while to come to terms with that.
My career has been very much kind of like what you were talking about with your mentor is I get hired and I show up every day and everybody involved in the project, there's a trust level and a dependability level. And the skill set is almost status quo. Like it's like, yeah, of course you can get the snare to sound good. What we need is somebody who we can trust and we can be comfortable around and can get the job done and show up.
time and time and time again and have a consistency. And so I think
To answer your question, I think there are two successful archetypes in our business. There are the ones that are just so good. They can do, they can be, and I'm not saying they are, but they can be maybe a little bit flaky and they can maybe not be the best hang and maybe some can even be abrasive or assholes.
Chris Baseford (25:16.094)
and it doesn't matter because they are so good. On the flip side, I think that there are people who are competent and do a great job. Because like I said, that status quo, you're not in this business, you don't make a career in this business if you can't pull off at least the status quo of the technical side, but are very dependable and trustworthy and are, you know, can be,
friends in the studio and can be a part of the inner circle and get hired over and over and over again by the same people because of that. And so I think those are the two types of people that succeed in this business. And I think there's a lot in that that maybe don't have as consistent of a career or as long of a career that lives somewhere in the middle.
to where, know, they're dependable, but maybe not consistently. They're, you know, technically good, but not as good as they need to be. And they kind of live in this no man's land of, yeah, you know, you can go do an album and it can take off, or you can go do a couple singles with a band and have some success. But maybe they're not quite good enough to then offset.
the things that maybe didn't make the process that enjoyable, or the guys who are like amazing, like I would love to go in the studio with you every day. It's such a great, fun experience. We have a blast, but maybe the outcome isn't as good as it needs to be. I mean, I'm obviously generalizing a lot of people. I'm putting a lot of people into kind of like a very generalized bucket, but my experience has
Ben, the people that I know in the business usually fall into kind of one category or another. And those are the ones who seem to be kind of just like consistently working. Yeah.
Andrew Barr (27:24.752)
Yeah, I remember the first time a client ever kind of like upset me. This was like maybe my fifth or sixth client I ever had. They had shot me a message and after our first studio session together, they're like, you know, we are actually thinking about going with somebody else. And they're like, but we just really enjoyed you. And like, even though their music sounded better, we just like hanging out with you more. And I remember like taking that as such an insult at the time, because I was like, no, like you should be going to the better guy. Like, why am I not this good? But the more I got into this, the more I realized that
there is something that I can control and that is creating an environment in the studio that actually wants them to come back. And they know that if you do a good job and you always turn up, you always show up, even if somebody else's music may sound better, they know they're gonna get their music from you, they're gonna be able to hang out in the studio, and maybe they actually write better because of the environment that you put them in. Then that can make a big, big difference.
Chris Baseford (28:16.744)
Well, it's amazing how the psychology of an experience can affect the way our senses interpret things. So if the music hasn't been made yet, who's to say the guy who might be technically better is going to make you sound, make the record sound better. If you're just having a terrible time or you're just like, I just want to get out of here or whatever. That's going to affect things. then on the flip side,
creating that environment and having fun and being in a good mood and being free to try things because you can trust the people that are there with you. I think that impacts the way you hear things. So maybe if you played those two scenarios for two people, they'd pick the quote unquote better sounding one. But I think sometimes the artist might interpret the better experience as the better sounding record because
we're human beings and it's hard to draw those lines in the sand of, no, this one sounds better, but I hated every minute of it. Like, are you really gonna like that than that? Like, are you gonna like that record that you made that you hated every minute of? Because, you know, the snare is a little bit like punchier. Like, it's hard for me to draw those lines and I think it is for most people. yeah, it's an interesting, kind of an interesting thought experiment for sure.
Andrew Barr (29:41.383)
I a good friend of mine owns a handful of restaurants in the in local area and one of the things that he is Extremely adamant about is the food has to taste good obviously But the experience up to getting the food will change their perception of whether they come back or not before they ever receive their food You can increase the chance of them coming back by you know 30 40 percent Just because of the experience they had beforehand if it took them forever to get their food even though it may be very good It took them forever. They might not come back
Chris Baseford (30:04.938)
Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew Barr (30:09.67)
the experience, if the experience was poor, they might not come back. And so, I believe that's one thing that you can control. And I'm a big fan of controlling the things that you can control. And then letting the stuff you can't control, just let it be, let it be as it is, and let it go.
Chris Baseford (30:23.751)
Yeah, that's easier said than done, but that's the goal.
Andrew Barr (30:27.19)
That's very true. So I kind of want to dive into your creative process and I want to know what this kind of looks like. So when you sit down and mix a big record, what's like the first thing that you listen for that tells you how the entire record is going to go?
Chris Baseford (30:44.541)
Hmm. Well, there's the thing that I preach and there's the thing that I try to do and then there's the thing that I actually do. What I've tried to get and it impacted my mixes for the better quite substantially is having the very first listen be complete.
Andrew Barr (30:53.743)
You
Chris Baseford (31:13.807)
wide open perspective listen. And so what I try to do is before I've heard, I mean, if it's something I'm producing, it's very difficult to get that perspective because I've been making the record the whole time. But if it's something that somebody has sent me to mix, and I haven't heard the rough mix, I haven't heard anything yet, I try to make that first listen be nothing
other than big picture and I have a notepad in my hand, not on the computer, notepad, pen, and all I'm doing is stream of consciousness. Whatever comes to me comes to me. And I try not to listen too hard to any one element. try, sometimes I'll even get up and walk around. Maybe I might even listen from the other room with my notepad. Anything I can do to give myself as close to an experience as
a listener, an average listener hearing that song for the first time. And it's kind of an ironic statement, but you can only have one first listen, right? It's captain obvious, but it's like, it can only happen once. And so I try to not jump the gun and be like, I'm gonna listen in on the way to the studio or
Andrew Barr (32:25.99)
That's very true.
Chris Baseford (32:40.115)
You know, mean, my first listen is going to be while I'm setting up the mix. Like, I've had to really get disciplined with not doing that. And so I've been able to figure out a process of just getting that first impression with as much objectivity as I can from a very casual listener standpoint.
Obviously we're engineers, we're mixers, we're producers. It's hard not to hear things, but those stream of consciousness and not trying to focus, those things just kind of come. And I have found the, I don't just write down things that I dislike about it that I want to fix. I also write down the things that I love. And so that helps guide me into like, on my very first listen, I thought the drums sounded great.
three hours into the mix, I don't need to be dissecting the drums and recreating stuff. Nothing was broken. don't need to do that. Whereas I feel like sometimes our tendency is to start going and fixing stuff that doesn't need to be fixed. Just because of, no, not because of any ego or anything like that, but it's just like, that's just our process, right? That's what we have fun doing. So I just write down things that strike me. And it can be something as,
basic as the vocal needs more top end. And it can be something as obscure as the bridge makes me feel euphoric. It can be something as detailed as gotta carve out 2K in the kick drum. And it can be something also as nondescript of there's something wrong with the guitar solo tone.
Question mark, question mark, question mark. I don't know what it is. There's something wrong with it. And so by the end of my first listen, I usually have anywhere between five and 20 notes. And that then instructs me what I need to do for that mix.
Andrew Barr (34:51.664)
That's such a great way of putting that in there because when you start off right off the bat, like I think we all have this tendency. My dad used to always say, fixers just try to fix things. And what he meant by that was I would break stuff a lot. So like fixers just try to fix things and you wanna get in, you wanna start diving into it. And you start solving all these problems and then the things that weren't necessarily as big of a problem are now the only thing that's left. And you seem to think that now that is top priority but sometimes you just need to leave it alone.
Chris Baseford (35:02.985)
I love that.
Andrew Barr (35:21.69)
When you think about some of the best mixes of your career, what do think they all have in common? Is it emotional clarity, technical execution, vibe, whatever that means? What do you think that is for you?
Chris Baseford (35:34.359)
wow.
Chris Baseford (35:41.891)
sure if I can pinpoint it to one thing. I feel like there's there's been some mixes that I've been very proud of that like I know are good just from an overall kind of standpoint again listening I'm not listening to elements I'm listening to the whole thing that's my answer actually because that's my goal my goal has
recently been refined as a mixer. It's very hard for me because I just love sonics. I love guitar tones. I love drum samples. I love just hi-fi and everything about like just good sound, whatever that means to you means something to me. My biggest challenge as a mixer is
having the listener hear the song. I feel like as me being me, I want to hear the kick drum. I want to hear the snare drum. I want to hear the awesome guitar tone. I want to hear the vocal, the character of the vocalist so much to where my tendency is to overdo stuff and shine spotlights on everything.
And I think probably the best mixes that I've that I feel like I've done are probably the ones when you listen to you're not listening to the kick drum, you're not listening to the snare drum, you're not listening to the, you know, the little guitar overdub and the you're listening to the song. Now, that doesn't mean the snare drum doesn't sound awesome. That doesn't mean that doesn't mean, you know, like, but you know what I mean, right?
Andrew Barr (37:30.598)
You
Chris Baseford (37:34.575)
And so there are songs, and there was one off of a record that came out, an album that came out a couple years ago. There's one of my favorite songs on the record. I listen back to the mix every once in a while I hear it. I'm like, I know this was an aha moment for me. Is when I listen back to what was one of my favorite songs on the record, songs, my mix of it, when I listen to it now, I don't hear the song.
I hear the elements of the mix. And it doesn't sound bad. I've had people tell me it's their favorite mix on the record. But when I listen to it, I hear elements of the mix. And that's not what I want. And so I look at that and I learned my lesson from that is if making the kick drum sound a little less awesome, make somebody listen to the song. That's the way to go. And if
not having the vocal be as bright because now all your, I mean the vocal, if there's something that's going to be too loud, you're going to want it to be that. But now it takes you out of this thing where I'm not feeling the emotion and I'm not feeling what the song is supposed to be doing. You got to, you got to make those compromises, those sonic and those technical compromises in order for the song to be, you know, the star of the show. And
You know, I've been doing a little bit more, you know, coaching and mentoring and social media, you know, tutorials and stuff like that. And one of the things, you know, I've tried to find good analogies that people can kind of get, you know, pull the lessons from. And one of them that I've used a few times that is I can see, you know, the pieces click when I say this to some people is
You know, if you've got a spotlight and you have to shine it on the stage, you know, and it can be really narrow or it can be big and it can move around, but you've only got one spotlight, you know, do you want it to be on the kick drum when the singer is saying a lyric that is just really, really emotionally intense? Or do you want it to be on the bass player when the guitar solo is having, you know, that moment that
Chris Baseford (40:04.019)
You know, it's like, no. So you gotta know, again, perspective is a big thing. You gotta know, you know, whether to zoom in on something and it can only be that one thing and it better be the thing that's gonna serve the song the best, or do you zoom out and just have the whole stage kind of, there not be a spotlight, it's just the whole thing, right? And so knowing when to do those things, I think can be a...
a huge difference between a good mix and a really good mix or a great mix. And I think that's the thing. Took me a second to kind of figure that out, but I feel like I've made some headway with knowing that the song is way more important than the elements of the mix.
Andrew Barr (40:51.504)
Yeah, because everybody's gonna listen to the song at the end of the day, not the individual mix. Because that's how it gets rendered out. I think of some of the best, even some of the best artwork and things like that, when you think of somebody who's a great photographer, you have that blurry background, but that front image is just completely clear. there was this trend that was going around on the internet for a while of separation and clarity. not that it's such a bad thing, but...
Chris Baseford (40:59.122)
Yes.
Andrew Barr (41:16.376)
optimizing for separation and clarity and not optimizing for what actually serves the song best can destroy a mix. So I had a mentor tell me years ago, he said, producing is 30 % music and 70 % managing people. And so I'm curious to know, like, what have you learned about, like, managing people and not just music when it comes to working with artists and trying to get it.
Chris Baseford (41:35.73)
Ha ha ha ha.
Andrew Barr (41:43.844)
trying to be able to pull the best performance from an artist when they're in the studio or even when you go into the mixing phase of things and setting expectations with them. What does that look like for you?
Chris Baseford (41:53.513)
For me, it's been, again, a pretty wide cross section of experiences. I've worked with artists that absolutely have their shit together from a psychology department, but need a lot of help on the music side of things. And I've dealt with artists who have like, I don't need to say one thing musically, I just need to, you
I need to keep the train on the tracks and everything in between. so I think, again, I'll kind of interpret that question being a little bit of like, what is a producer's ultimate role? And for me, it has been...
Andrew Barr (42:24.294)
You
Chris Baseford (42:42.408)
figuring out very early on in the process what role you need to play and sometimes it's not you don't need to be the coach and sometimes you do need to be the coach and sometimes you need to be you know, I'll use bad football analogies here sometimes you need to be the wide receiver and you got to let the artist be the quarterback and other times you have to be the quarterback and the and the artist has to be the running back that you hand off the ball to or whatever like
you have to figure that out really fast. And it also changes day to day. I've been with bands where one day, you know, you're the cheerleader and the next day you're, you know, mean dad, you know, having to be the disciplinary and keeping everybody under control. And so it...
I guess when you put it that way, it's 100 % people because that we're human beings and it's every day is different and every moods and dynamics and all that stuff is changing. And so yeah, a lot of it is kind of figuring out how to mesh. So that way you're achieving whatever the ultimate goal is. And I would like to think at the end of the day, everybody's goal is to make the best record possible. And I think that that's always there, but sometimes it's just to get through the process.
Sometimes it's to make sure something gets delivered on time. Sometimes it's to make sure the band doesn't break up. You know, like there's a lot that goes into that. And so being able to constantly be analyzing that and re-strategizing for that. So I guess your answer is it's a lot, a lot of the people, you know.
Andrew Barr (44:10.438)
You
Andrew Barr (44:27.738)
Yeah, yes. What do you think makes an artist and band easy to work with versus difficult to work with? For anybody that's listening who is like, they're the band themselves, how can they make someone like you, your life, as easy as possible so that way everybody gets the greatest result?
Chris Baseford (44:37.671)
Hmm.
Chris Baseford (44:49.201)
think having a clear, you don't have to necessarily have a clear vision as to kind of what the end result is gonna be, but having a clear vision as to what the goal is. Again, I've worked with, I've worked with, on some projects where, you know,
Chris Baseford (45:14.779)
there, I'm trying to think of how to word this in a nice way. There has been definitely more emphasis placed on, let's have a good time. Let's have a good experience. Let's enjoy this. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that being the goal, but not acknowledging that.
Andrew Barr (45:18.88)
Hahaha!
Chris Baseford (45:41.927)
being like, oh no, no, we need to make a great record at any cost. And then the minute things start getting a little friction, then all of a sudden it's like, you know, what the fuck? And you're like, no, no, we're all in this together. We're all making the record together. If this is to satisfy your experience, that could lead us down a different path, then this is what's gonna take to make a record the best it can be.
So having a, just having a clear defined goal that everybody is on board with, I think can make a huge difference. And again, you can say you're on board with it and then, you know, things kind of change and things go, you know, awry. But if everybody's starting with that same goal and it doesn't, it doesn't have to always be, we need the best sounding record or we need to this or we need the, it can be whatever you want it to be.
but that I feel like can make a really, really big difference.
And then I guess your other question, of what makes, you know, that's kind of one of the things I'd suggest to a band if they were, you or an artist, how can we make, you know, this good to work with or make a good working relationship?
Chris Baseford (47:06.203)
What makes an artist good to work with versus bad to work with? I think some of the artists that are maybe a little more difficult to work with.
Chris Baseford (47:18.043)
think distraction, things not being a priority, I think that makes things hard for guys like us where a lot of the time, eating, sleeping, breathing for an artist. sometimes when the artist isn't putting as much in or it's not their priority, like it's your priority, it can make things a little...
difficult, let's say. You know, I've heard some managers, I can't remember, this might have been an Irving Azoff thing. I can't remember where it came from. But it's like, a very famous artist manager said, never work harder than your artist. And that's not to say don't work hard. But it's kind of like your artist, this is them. This is their career. This is about them. They should be the hardest person, working person in the room.
Andrew Barr (48:07.856)
Yeah
Chris Baseford (48:15.238)
And I've been on a lot of sessions where it feels like everybody in the room, except for the artist is working hard. And that can be difficult. I think that's kind of, know, and for a variety of reasons, but yeah, I think just, you know, being present, the project being a priority and not being super distracted by, you know, a lot of other things that are unrelated can definitely make an an awesome experience for everybody.
Andrew Barr (48:45.978)
A mentor of mine used to always say, without a vision, the people perish. And I think that might be a quote from the Bible. But nevertheless, I love that. Having a good, clear vision and then making sure everybody's on board can really make things really easy in the process. Because at the very least, everyone is going to have at least a goal to go towards and a direction to follow. And if the project is a priority, you may have different thoughts about whether the vocals should be louder or quieter or whatever else. But everybody wants a really good result at the end.
Chris Baseford (48:52.103)
Mmm.
Andrew Barr (49:15.462)
As we get to the end here, I'm curious to know what skill has paid you back more than any plugin, piece of gear, like, ever could.
Chris Baseford (49:24.039)
Hmm. What skill?
I mean, you kind of touched upon it very, very early on, like showing up on time. I mean, you want to call that shouldn't that shouldn't be considered a skill, but in you know, for some reason, it absolutely is.
Preparation has been a huge part of, I think, my career. I feel like any of those moments that I can go back and look at as being positive turning points or really impactful points along the road.
And if you start analyzing them, and some of them kind of we've touched upon today already, that you go back and you think about, they're like, what kind of led to that? Or why did that go so well? Or why did that turn into three more projects? And a lot of that for me has been just being prepared and what that means can be different for everybody. For me, it's a lot of like internalizing and I don't do a lot of like,
know, envisioning things, but I think I ponder a lot. So if I've got a project coming up, like that's swirling around in my brain, like nonstop, even like driving into the studio, what I'm gonna do that day is already, I'm already like planning out like, okay, well then I know the mix is gonna do this and this, or I'm working on this production, we're tracking guitars today. I'm already thinking about.
Chris Baseford (51:08.08)
you know, what am I, what mics am I gonna use to get that sound or sort of try this? How much time are we gonna have? Like just a lot of preparation and planning has been a huge part for me.
Yeah, and I think that again, kind of going back to what we were talking about earlier, I think when you do that, when those opportunities come up, that's when you can make the most of them. And it still shocks me. mean, again, there are some people who are so good, who are so good that they can show up not having put two cents into anything.
and pull it off and it'd be incredible. And then the rest of us, you gotta kinda get some groundwork laid before you even show up. And that can be career, that could be a session, that could be anything. The planning and the preparation for me, again, I don't consider that a skill, but maybe it is. That's been extremely impactful.
Andrew Barr (52:16.44)
One thing that I learned from a mentor, very intelligent man, very good in the music production space, but he was more like higher level, like just would be in the room and would just guide people, right? Never touching anything. He was always adamant about everything's a skill. If it changes your behavior, it's a skill. So for example, if you walk into the room and you stand up when somebody walks in and you shake their hand, you look them in the eye and you remember their name, right? That is...
Chris Baseford (52:35.376)
Mm.
Andrew Barr (52:44.422)
charisma, we have this bucket that we call charisma, but it's really a bunch of little tiny skills that are inside of this bucket. And so if you can say, when so and so walks into the room, you stand up, shake their hand, look them in the eye, repeat their name back to them, ask them how their day was, that is considered charisma, but at the end of the day, it is a skill. And so showing up on time is a skill. All of these things are skills. And so I don't want anybody to be listening to this and to think that, oh, maybe I don't have these certain traits. At the end of the day, at least in my opinion, I do believe that they are skills.
Chris Baseford (52:47.238)
Mmm.
Andrew Barr (53:13.08)
And I think that developing those skills, specifically when it comes to working with other people, can give you so many opportunities that you otherwise wouldn't have before.
Chris Baseford (53:22.886)
Yeah, well said. And I've never really thought of it that way, but you're 100 % right. And it is something that, you know, if you're aware of it and you think about it, I think it's hard when nobody's taught you or maybe you haven't had great examples of what it looks like to prepare for a session or to, you know, plan out your week if, you know, if you're
freelance engineer or producer, like if you if you've never had a good example, or you've never even been been taught, or you're not aware that's even something that you should be doing, then it's obviously it's hard to, you know, put put together a practice that would take advantage of that. But yeah, I mean, just being cognizant of that can make a huge difference to a lot of people. Yeah.
Andrew Barr (54:16.89)
Yes, can be, it can. So, my final question here is one that you probably was expecting was to come, but if you had to start over with just a laptop at 500 bucks, what would you do first?
Chris Baseford (54:30.434)
Laptop and 500 bucks. Okay. Well if the laptop already had let's say like logic installed on it. I don't need to buy software I would probably get a really good set of headphones and a really and when I say a really good set a really good set is subjective, I know some people who have $400 headphones and they think they're of shit. I know people have hundred dollar headphones
that do incredible mixes on them. So that's subjective. But what what you would consider to get a really good set of headphones and
Hmm.
Chris Baseford (55:15.366)
Probably a YouTube premium membership to skip all the ads and just absorb all of the awesome content I could. You know what? think there's a lot of really great educational things or even just kind of like virtual mentorships that are available online now that, man, if I think about having that type of access when I was starting, I think that still blows me away.
Andrew Barr (55:21.518)
You
Chris Baseford (55:42.554)
I mean, even what we're doing right now, I mean, I would scour through, you know, Mix Magazine and there might be one article every six issues that I actually got something from and the rest of it was ads and just a bunch of fluff. I mean, the access to really talented, knowledgeable people now is pretty insane. So anything to do to kind of fast track that and just consume as much, yeah, spend
Spend your money on the fast internet connection as you can get, YouTube premium account, and then if you had any money left over from your headphones, find, find somebody who you like what they do and hope that there's some sort of, whether it be a mix with the masters or something of that, and watch it over and over and over and over and over again. that's what I would have done.
Andrew Barr (56:34.384)
Yes, I love that. I always think there is somebody out there who has had less and has done better, and the only difference is the fact that they had the drive and the ability to gain education from this case. If someone wants to learn more from you, where can they go?
Chris Baseford (56:41.446)
Mm.
Chris Baseford (56:52.07)
Best place to find me is probably my website, chrisbaseford.com. I do a weekly newsletter, sometimes not so weekly, but I'm trying. But we're building a little community over there and we've got lots of goodies that we're giving away and some more educational things that are coming up. The other place if you want some free content, youtube.com slash chrisbaseford. I've done a bunch of really long-winded live streams.
and some other kind of educational and tutorial-based content that I hope is valuable to you guys out there.
Andrew Barr (57:29.766)
For everyone watching, go follow Chris, go binge his content, and learn from the guy behind some of the biggest rock records of the last two decades. Chris, this was legendary. Thank you, man.
Chris Baseford (57:38.949)
Awesome, thank you so much.
